What you need to know about construction law with Special Guest Alex Barthet

When do you need a construction attorney, and how can you find a good one? Should you be amending contracts, and how can you protect your lien rights? Construction attorney Alex Barthet joins us this week to answer these questions and more. He pinpoints the main things you need to focus on and what resources are available to help guide you. Listen in and make sure you implement his two action items in January to protect yourself in 2024!

Topics we cover in this episode include:

  • The best time to hire a lawyer is when you don’t need one
  • How to find a good construction lawyer
  • What to look out for when signing a new contract
  • You need to protect your lien and bond rights
  • Make sure you’re aware of the lien laws in your project’s jurisdiction
  • Liability and the Hold Harmless Agreement  
  • The Right to Stop Work
  • How to make changes to a contract
  • Options for assistance with your contracts

LINKS
Join the conversation on our LinkedIn page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/CarpenterCPAs

FIND US ONLINE
Wade Carpenter, CPA, CGMA | CarpenterCPAs.com
Stephen Brown, Bonding Expert | SuretyAnswers.com

TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] Wade Carpenter: How can you find a great construction attorney? Aren’t they all the same? Back with us is Alex Barthet. Come on in. Let’s talk about it.

This is the Contractor Success Forum. If you’re new here, I’m Wade Carpenter with Carpenter Company CPAs. With me, My co host Stephen Brown with McDaniel Whitley, Bonding and Insurance. And back for another round, our friend, construction attorney, Alex Barthet. Alex–

[00:00:27] Stephen Brown: Hey, Alex. Welcome.

[00:00:29] Alex Barthet: Guys, thank you very much. We’re wrapping this up in the end of 2023, getting ready for 2024. It’s great.

[00:00:36] Stephen Brown: It’s unbelievable how fast this year went and how fast December’s going, but, Alex, thanks for coming on the podcast because we really wanted to talk a little bit about what contractors need to know about the law.

And it sounds so basic, but, as a bond agent, the bonds that I issue are tied directly to the contract that my contractors sign, and I tell them: that contract will be enforced against you, or you can enforce it against them. But either way, it’s got to be something you’re willing to sign. The risk you’re willing to take. So you’ve got to read your contracts as much as you hate it. And a lot of them say, well, this is a standard type contract. I’m not sending it to my attorney to read, but that’s a huge thing that I run across.

The best time to hire a lawyer is when you don’t need one

[00:01:23] Stephen Brown: And then the second thing is, I tell all my customers that if you have to look for a good construction attorney, that’s an attorney that specializes in the construction industry, and you have to look in the Yellow Pages, it’s too late.

So, we may have younger listeners who don’t know what Yellow Pages are, but back in the old days, that was a directory. That’s how you looked people up. So, what are your thoughts on that?

[00:01:47] Alex Barthet: Sure, I’ll start with the second question first. It’s funny, it’s rare that I get a phone call from somebody that they say, I don’t have a problem. I don’t have anything going on now, but I know I’m going to need one. So I’m looking to hire a lawyer now. I probably get that call maybe twice a year.

The other hundreds of calls we get over the year are, I’ve just been sued. What do I do? I need a lawyer. Hey, someone owes me money. I’ve never had to do this before. How do I get paid? I need to sign this contract in three days. It’s a hundred pages. I probably should have someone read it. Can I hire you to do it today?

So absolutely, positively, if there’s one thing anyone that’s listening to this podcast should do, it’s say, okay, the first thing I’m going to do the first week of January is I’m going to find, if I don’t have a good construction lawyer, I’m not happy with the lawyer that I have, I’m going to go find a new lawyer, even though I don’t need one. It’s the best time to hire one. Just like it’s the best time to get a loan when you don’t need the money. The best time to hire a lawyer is when you don’t need a lawyer.

[00:02:54] Stephen Brown: That’s so true.

[00:02:55] Alex Barthet: Yes.

How to find a good construction lawyer

[00:02:56] Alex Barthet: And by the way, there’s easy ways to find lawyers. It’s not that hard now.

Many states have board certifications for construction law. Florida is one of the leaders that has 42, I think, different types of certifications. But other states do, typically the larger states. So for example, if you’re in Florida, you can look for board certified construction lawyers. That takes the number of attorneys down from many tens of thousands of lawyers down to a few hundred at most.

And if you look for one that’s in your jurisdiction, it’s probably going to be a dozen or so. So, it makes the choice a lot easier. The internet’s a great place.

I would strongly encourage the listeners to look for Google reviews or other reviews, just like you would if you’re going out with your spouse for dinner. No different than looking for that for your lawyer. See what other people have said about him or her, and then pick up the phone and see how responsive they are.

If you call the lawyer and it takes them a week to get back to you, mmm, you know…

[00:03:58] Stephen Brown: That’s a sign. Yeah.

[00:04:00] Alex Barthet: What’s that mean when you have to hire them when you need to review a contract or you get sued, right? That’s what you’re dealing with. So keep that in mind. What you see today is what you’re going to get later. But those are some things to consider. What are some of the things that your clients have seen when they deal with lawyers?

[00:04:15] Stephen Brown: I can tell you this, and I’ve got to just get this out. Same thing about good construction CPAs and good construction attorneys. They save you money. So you may be intimidated by the fees at first, or you might say that’s a little steep, but you get good advice from good people. You get bad advice from bad attorneys and CPAs that don’t understand the construction industry.

That costs you money. Bad advice costs you money.

[00:04:43] Wade Carpenter: Can I piggyback off that? Because I was going to say the same thing with a bond agent. There’s a lot of people that do not understand construction, but there are a lot of nuances with construction. And you can’t pick up a phone and just call anybody. And that’s where, we’ve enjoyed working with you because it definitely shows when somebody knows exactly what they’re talking about or they got to go look up everything.

[00:05:06] Alex Barthet: That’s a great point. I appreciate that. You save money because we’ve already done it all. Because that’s the only industry we serve. So, if you’re in a small town, a small city, it may be harder. But in any city or town that has a metropolis of any sort, more often than not, you’re going to find specialists. And when in doubt, you want to find a specialist rather than a generalist.

So your uncle may be a great lawyer that does divorce and he’ll bail you out of jail and, he can do an eviction for you. But if you have the ability to find a lawyer that just focuses on construction, just like a construction CPA, a construction bonding agent, construction insurance agent, you save money. It makes all the difference.

What to look out for when signing a new contract

[00:05:50] Stephen Brown: Okay, so, talking about the first thing we discussed, the contract that you signed. I’m a subcontractor, and I’ve got a big GC who’s coming in town to do a big project, and I may not have worked with them before. If I have to get into a lawsuit with them, what chance do I have if they don’t pay me or I have to sue them or they change the terms of the contract?

[00:06:15] Alex Barthet: What I would suggest to you is that anyone that’s handing you their form of contract, you should just assume automatically it’s really good for them and really bad for you, right? Without having to read anything, right? So when they hand you that stack and they say, okay, here it is, here’s our 20, 30, 100 page contract. You should just assume that almost everything in there is not in your favor.

I would also caution you when someone says, oh no no, we’re going to use a standard AIA, more often than not, what we see when that happens is what gets handed to you is a heavily modified AIA. So the logo at the top, it hasn’t changed, but a lot of the terms and conditions have.

So, you know, I can make an AIA kind of look like an AIA contract and have it say things that are really good for me and not good for you. So just be careful about that.

[00:07:07] Stephen Brown: Isn’t that the truth?

You need to protect your lien and bond rights

[00:07:08] Wade Carpenter: I actually have a contractor, and I know you’re in Florida, but this contractor’s in Texas. And he does commercial and some residential stuff. Got pulled into some people in Oklahoma, doing some commercial stuff, but also doing, essentially, some mountain cabins or something like that.

And got halfway through it, the guy says, well, just, we’ll take care of all the change orders at the end. He got three quarters of the way through the contract and he had AIA billings and the guy said he wasn’t doing it right and all this stuff. So they got pretty much the project done, and then he stopped paying him and sued him, and as well as this guy was building for somebody, a third party. And for whatever reason, he said he could not lien.

So, I know you probably have to generalize about a lot of that, but any thoughts on that particular situation?

[00:08:00] Alex Barthet: Yeah, so the first thing I would tell you is, you need to protect your lien and bond rights.

Almost every state, I think pretty much every state has some version of lien or bond rights. The rules are all different. So Texas is different than Florida, which is different than New York and California. But you know, the reality is, is that you probably have lien rights.

You probably have to serve certain notices at the beginning, some notices at the end. So when you go into a job, the first thing you want to do is recognize, okay, I’m about to sign this contract. What do I have to do in the jurisdiction I’m in to protect those lien rights? There’s so many resources online.

My guess is if you just wanted to know what they were, if you just Googled lien rights Texas, you’d probably find an article somewhere that at least it described the things you have to do. There are many national services. The one that we recommend is a service by the name of Sunray Construction Solutions.

They’re in Florida, but they’re a national notice company. I think she was on your podcast at one point.

[00:09:02] Stephen Brown: Absolutely.

[00:09:03] Wade Carpenter: Unambiguously, Yeah.

[00:09:04] Alex Barthet: So having your notice and lien rights protected is critical. The people that get paid first are the people that have lien rights.

[00:09:13] Stephen Brown: That’s right.

[00:09:14] Alex Barthet: If you don’t have lien rights, you’re automatically at the back of the line, if there’s any money left.

[00:09:19] Stephen Brown: Alex, would you talk a little bit about, so contractors understand, what venue, what court, is going to oversee your case? Where the project’s located, where the GC’s located, where you’re located?

[00:09:32] Alex Barthet: It depends on the state, but most states, most states have a law that says if you’re going to enforce lien rights because you performed work in my state, that’s the venue where the jurisdiction lies. So if you’re doing work in Dallas, Texas, with a contractor, that’s out of Chicago, and the contract says Chicago Law, Illinois Law, and venue in Chicago, more likely than not, if you’re going to assert your lien rights, that’s going to happen in Texas. So the rest of the case will likely happen in Texas.

[00:10:06] Stephen Brown: Even if the contract states that it will be in their venue?

[00:10:10] Alex Barthet: Almost always, if you’re going to tie lien rights to the rest of the dispute, it’s all going to happen in the same place. Now, where that is different is if you didn’t preserve your lien rights, right? So let’s assume that you’re doing work in Florida, project’s in Florida. You sign a contract with that Chicago attorney and they say arbitration in Chicago, and you’re not asserting lien rights here in Florida. If you have to have that dispute, you’re going to Chicago and you’re going to have an arbitration.

So what’s in the contract will control, except usually when you have lien rights that you’re protecting in the jurisdiction. Again, another big reason why you want to secure your lien rights in the state where you’re doing the work.

[00:10:57] Stephen Brown: Okay.

[00:10:58] Wade Carpenter: That was my next question because that’s probably the issue that this contractor out of Texas. Project was in Oklahoma, but I don’t know where the people were that were the general contractor, the prime contractor, but.

[00:11:11] Alex Barthet: Yeah, I’ll give you an example. We had a case not too long ago where the project was in the Bahamas. All of the parties were based out of New York, but they agreed that any dispute would happen in Miami. So everyone was in Miami dealing with the dispute. Because that’s what the contract says.

So the contract will govern barring some other circumstance in the law that would force you to do something else. But again, going back to the thrust of the question, which is you really have to figure out how can you protect lien rights in the jurisdiction that you’re going.

Make sure you’re aware of the lien laws in your project’s jurisdiction

[00:11:46] Alex Barthet: We represent some contractors that are based in other parts of the country and their entire business is to do, this client I’m thinking about, tenant build out work for chain restaurants and stores across the country. They are constantly going to jurisdictions all over the country. And what’s key is they need to understand, well, I’m going to California for the first time, what’s the lien law? I better figure it out before I get there.

Rather than say, yeah, I’ll figure it out if there’s a problem. Because normally– and this is where people make a mistake. They think if I’m owed money, then I will assert my lien rights. And the problem is that most jurisdictions have a pre lien notice that has to go out before you’re even owed any money, before you know there’s a dispute, sometimes within weeks of you getting that contract, you have to send this notice.

So you’re waiting until you wrote money eight months from now and you, you’ve blown it because you didn’t send a notice three weeks after you signed the contract. That’s the rub.

I’ll add one other thing, Stephen, about the contracts because, I will tell you that more often than not, people will make changes to your contract even if they tell you that they don’t make changes to their contract. So that’s to me rule number one. Don’t be afraid to make changes to the contract because people will, they will, they’ll make changes. They’ll tell you they don’t.

[00:13:14] Stephen Brown: Right at the last minute. And you’ll have a copy of the, the sample contract and the bid, and then at closing it’ll be different. I’ve seen that before. At like HUD loan closings. I’ve seen them, the owners switch up the language. And literally at a HUD loan closing, you, the bond agent, and the contractor have to initial every single page. That specifically caused one of my best contractors to go under.

 And it was literally the point where I said this contract language is different. They switched this. Well, it’s not much. I can live with it. Yeah, but if he’s screwing you right now, what’s he going to do down the road? Which he absolutely did.

But back to the contracts, what you sign is so important. And the key elements of that contract, you may bid a job and it has a sample contract in it. And the wording is tied to all the specs that are attached to it, there may be a thousand pages. And that’s always overwhelmed me as a bond agent, even though so much of it has to do with the regulatory type fluff and so forth, but you’re signing that contract.

And I have a good customer and he told me, he said, what I do with each and every owner, is I go, we sit down, we go over the contract again, and I explain to them, I’m comfortable with this, you’re comfortable with it, this is how we’re going to apply for payment as long as you pay, as long as we go through the steps the contract sets out for this job, we are going to do a great job for you. And you’re going to be so happy with the work we’re doing.

And it’s just, it doesn’t sound like much, but just at the beginning of the project to get things going off in the right direction, is fantastic, I think.

[00:14:58] Alex Barthet: It’s all about managing expectations.

Liability and the Hold Harmless Agreement

[00:15:00] Stephen Brown: That’s right. Another key element of the contract that I always am concerned about as an insurance agent too, is the Hold Harmless Agreement.

And I always tell my customers, look for that capital letter, bold letters in the contract. And then some state laws, protect you against just rampant hold harmless language. So you’re responsible for this, your employees are responsible for what my employees are doing, and everything under the sun.

[00:15:27] Alex Barthet: So I was in a settlement meeting yesterday, where my client is the subcontractor on a multifamily building in Florida. And the contractor. who made a claim against our bonding company, so this was a meeting with us and our bonding company because the claim is being made against us. And the contract that he signed, my client signed, as articulated by the general contractor, so his presentation was, yes. You may be 1 percent at fault, but the contract that you signed says that you own 100 percent of the responsibility. So even if you’re 1 percent at fault, you own 100 percent of the liability.

And in this case, my client was the stucco contractor, and he covered a few of the weep holes on a few of the windows. There was a big rain event. Now, meanwhile, the windows were a disaster, there was lots of other issues in the building and there was about a million dollars worth of damage in the building. So we went back and said, look, there was a dozen weep holes that were covered. Clearly those dozen weep holes didn’t cause a million dollars worth of damage.

And the contractor’s position is that may be the case, but the contract you signed says that if you own 1 percent of it, you own 100 percent of it. So you have to be very, very careful. Of course, my client was surprised and we’ve, subsequent to that meeting have found a loophole. So, the game isn’t over yet, but why go through all of that hassle if at the time that you’re negotiating the contract, you identify these issues and say, I don’t think I want to own all of that liability for this contract?

So you absolutely have to read what you’re signing. And one of the things that we. Have anyone can use it. I mentioned it before. It’s become pretty popular, is a, a tool called the Contract Detective. So if anyone goes to contractdetective.com, you can upload your contract and it will identify 10 of the most dangerous terms that we see: Consequential Damages, Indemnity Provisions, Pay When Paid, Caps on Liability. And it’ll send you back in about 90 seconds your contract with the highlighted terms and a link to explain what those terms mean. Because half of it is just understanding it.

[00:17:42] Stephen Brown: Right. And I’ve used it before, and it’s fantastic. And, an attorney that I think is fantastic came up with that program. So, thank you, Alex.

[00:17:52] Alex Barthet: No, no, no. I, just like you guys, for the same reason you do this podcast, we think that it’s really important that folks learn and understand more about the construction law aspect of what they do so they are better contractors and better business people.

[00:18:08] Stephen Brown: Right. And all three of us want knowledgeable customers. The more knowledgeable you are, the less headaches. But I can honestly tell you that a conversation between two people about one of them saying, oh, that, I heard that attorney’s really expensive, and the other contractor look at him straight now and go, that attorney has made me a lot of money. And so.

[00:18:30] Alex Barthet: It makes a big difference. It makes a big difference for sure.

The Right to Stop Work

[00:18:33] Alex Barthet: One of the things that people ask me all the time is, well, if I have to pick just a few changes to make in the contract, what changes should they be? And, what I tell folks is as a subcontractor, the number one change you should make is making sure you have the right to stop work if you’re not getting paid. And clients look at me sometimes and they say, well, of course, if I’m not getting paid, I’m going to stop working. And then I open up their contract and I said, well, look at paragraph 8.4. It says, even if you’re not getting paid, you agree that you will keep working.

And they’re like, oh, I didn’t know that I had to do that. I said, well, you probably should have the right to stop working if you’re not getting paid. So let’s write that into the contract.

[00:19:12] Stephen Brown: Yeah. So what do you do? You literally scratch that out and send it back to them?

How to make changes to a contract

[00:19:18] Alex Barthet: Most contractors do not want you to actually modify their contract. So they want you to generate an addendum. So that addendum would be an additional document attached and references the contract and says, this addendum modifies and supersedes. the contract, and then you list the terms that you’re going to change.

So you’ll say, in paragraph 8. 4, notwithstanding the foregoing, if subcontractor has not been paid within 30 days, of its pay request, it has the right to stop work without liability or penalty. Right? So just a simple sentence, and maybe they don’t agree to 30 days. Maybe it’s 45, maybe it’s 60, but it’s not never.

At some point you get to stop working if you’re not getting paid.

[00:20:04] Stephen Brown: Mhmm.

[00:20:05] Alex Barthet: And you’ll make those changes throughout the contract. We see a success rate of between 10 and 30 percent of the changes we propose. So when clients come to us, we’ll generate a proposed addendum.

On an average contract, let’s call it 30, 40, 50 pages. We’ll generate a hundred plus changes, some big, some small, and then we’ll identify for the clients, like these dozen are the ones you really want to focus on. These other 80 some changes, they’d be nice. If you propose 30, you’re still only going to get 10 percent.

If you propose 100 changes, you may only get 10 percent. So that’s why we say, you gotta have a lot to walk away from so that you can get the handful that are really important.

[00:20:47] Stephen Brown: Mm hmm.

[00:20:47] Alex Barthet: And we see folks, understandably, they just want to get back to doing construction. Like they don’t want This protracted negotiation back and forth with the contract, but it’s that give and take.

If you just give someone your best and final, well, here’s my addendum. This is what I’ll take. They’re going to start cutting that anyways. So if you have no fat in it to cut, you’re, you’re stuck. So you gotta give them things that are going to get cut out so you can focus on the things that matter.

[00:21:13] Stephen Brown: That’s great advice.

[00:21:15] Wade Carpenter: Makes a lot of sense to me, too.

Options for assistance with your contracts

[00:21:16] Wade Carpenter: What do you recommend for a contractor, do you recommend they come to you and go through all contracts? Or if they’re used to the GC, or in this case, with the contractor in Texas I’ve still got on my mind, he crossed state lines, he didn’t know the lien laws, he didn’t get registered in the state, he didn’t look into the licensing. I think Ariella Wagner would be a wonderful resource for things like lien law, but what would you generally advise?

[00:21:42] Alex Barthet: So, the first thing is, anyone that’s planning to cross state lines needs to think about what is the lien law in the jurisdiction they’re going to, what are the licensing, insurance, and bonding requirements in those new jurisdictions. Because, the difference between Georgia and Florida is night and day.

[00:22:02] Stephen Brown: Night and day.

[00:22:03] Alex Barthet: So to think, ah, it’s only 50 miles from my house, how bad could it be? And it’s completely different, right? So those are things you need to take into account in advance.

As far as the contract goes we try to be as transparent as we can with the client.

Most everyone that calls me, the first thing I do is I, I say, I’m happy to do it for you. But here are some options. You can go to thecontractdetective.com and it’s not a lawyer, but it gives you a jumpstart. So you don’t have to pay me anything. Maybe that’s a good place to start.

Secondly, one of the things we can do is we have generated over the years a one page addendum that covers most of the issues that we see our subcontractor clients deal with in their contracts with, GCs and the same between GCs and owners. And we provide that at a fixed fee. It’s one page.

It’s not specific to that contract, but it just covers most of the issues. Indemnity, consequential damages, the right to stop work, notice an opportunity to cure, kind of as a generic addendum. Some people like that. They don’t want to pay us to review every contract.

And then we have other clients that they say, we’re just going to have you review every contract, and what I would suggest to you, especially if you’re a company that has contracts over and over with the same or different contractors, that if you wanted to take the time to learn how to do it, I would suggest hire a lawyer to do the first one for you, generate an addendum, and then pay that lawyer to walk you through the addendum in the contract.

You will realize that the next contract, even from a different contractor, is shockingly similar to the last contract that you did. 8.4 for this contractor is now paragraph 7.9 in the other one. They are the same thing. It’s just written a little differently in a different place and the addendum, I don’t want to say it’s the same, but the issues are the same. They’re just written differently and in a different place.

So if you take the time to understand that first addendum, so we tell clients that too. Why don’t you have us do the first one with you and then every other one, we give you our work product. We give you the addendum in Word. You can just take that. And then now, if you’re willing to spend the time, when you get your next contract, you just take a look at our addendum, and you can start matching where it goes and you deal with it that way.

So there’s a lot of ways for people that don’t want, or don’t have the ability to spend the money, they can still protect themselves.

[00:24:36] Stephen Brown: That’s great advice, Alex. And I wanted to add one more thing. When you go to look for your good construction attorney in January, also, that’s a great time to have them help you prepare a contract that you give to your subcontractors, along with a sample insurance certificate you get from your agent and that wording matches up with the contract. It’s worth its weight in gold and helps you get your subs on that project quickly.

[00:25:02] Alex Barthet: Yeah. For a few grand, you can get a stack of customized, tailored contracts that you can hand to people. And by the way, the fastest way to get someone to sign your contract is if it’s already done, pre printed, looks like it can’t be amended, and guess what? Just like you feel compelled to sign when someone hands you their contract, you could do the same thing with your subs.

By the way, you can even do the same things if you’re a smaller GC that deals with owners, right? You don’t have to use the AIA. Hire a construction lawyer who will prepare a version of a contract that you can hand to owners. So now they’re signing your form of agreement.

The last one I would say is if all you’re doing right now is generating proposals or estimates out of QuickBooks and it has no terms and conditions, so here’s assignment number two for January. Hire a lawyer to generate a one page set of terms and conditions. It can be very simple. So, the right to recover attorney’s fees if you have to sue somebody, waiver of consequential damages so if there’s an issue, no one has to pay anyone for their consequential damages. The right to collect interest, right? So you’d like to get interest at the highest rate possible. So in Florida, that’s 18%, but if you say nothing, you get like 6%.

So, these little things you can have as a one page Terms and Conditions. So now, the next time you send your proposal, you’re sending your proposal that references, they call it in the old days, the backside, right?

You remember, you sign the proposal, you flip it on the back, and it has all the– So, it’s that back page of Terms and Conditions. And, that’s probably $500, $1 ,000 in legal fees, and it will save you so much money.

[00:26:48] Stephen Brown: Thousands of dollars a year, no matter how small you are.

[00:26:51] Alex Barthet: Correct. Correct. Because what it does is it gives you the ability, if something goes wrong, you can point to it and say, this is not my fault. Look, you signed it. Here it is. It’s in black and white. So sorry, I’m not going to pay for it. Rather than having to argue about it.

That’s it. Everyone’s got two assignments for January.

[00:27:08] Stephen Brown: That’s right.

[00:27:08] Wade Carpenter: Well, this has all been great. Alex we appreciate you coming on and you’ve done a podcast, we’re working on three years with this podcast, but yours goes way back and I think your mission to help contractors by education first, I think that resonates with me and Stephen.

Can you tell our listeners how to find your podcast and how to find you?

[00:27:28] Alex Barthet: Sure. I appreciate that. Yeah, everything that we do is generally available at thelienzone.com. So we have a list of our events. We do a monthly webinar, with the good folks at Sunray, talking about different construction topics, liens, releases, contracts, collections. We have our weekly podcast, which is the Lien Zone podcast.

All of the tools, including Contract Detective, we have many other tools that we offer for free. You can all get that at theleanzone. com. And if you happen to be in Miami, we host a monthly lunch and learn, called the Miami Construction Forum. We get about a hundred local contractors every month. It’s completely free, free parking. We provide lunch and we have a different speaker every month talking about project management, liens, bonds, collections, insurance things relevant to the construction industry. And if you’re not from Miami, Miami is a great place. Maybe take a trip to Miami and arrange it around one of our Miami Construction Forum events.

Especially if you’re in the Northeast during the months of January and March.

[00:28:33] Stephen Brown: Yes, absolutely. Well, I’m going to be down there to see my daughter soon and I plan on attending.

[00:28:38] Alex Barthet: Absolutely. Yeah. If you go to the miamiconstructionforum.com website, you’ll see all of the events we have for 2024.

[00:28:44] Stephen Brown: All right. Hey–

[00:28:45] Alex Barthet: Appreciate you guys.

[00:28:46] Stephen Brown: And, and, and listeners, if you have some questions or topics that we didn’t address that you’d like us to get Alex back on and see if we can talk him into helping us again, we’ll most certainly do it. And please check out thelienzone.com. It’s a fantastic website.

[00:29:03] Alex Barthet: Thank you guys. I appreciate it.

[00:29:05] Wade Carpenter: Again, Alex, we really appreciate you coming on. It’s always great ideas so thank you and thank you all for listening to the Contractor Success Forum. Check out the show notes at contractorsuccessforum.com or on the Carpenter CPAs YouTube channel for more information.

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